Primeira foto do R520

Estava a brincar :P
Mas estou com uma gforce 2 mx a algum tempo a espera da r520 .
E com estas noticias nao sei o que fazer .
Vou ver o que a propria Ati diz .
E so boatos , deixem falar .
Quero e ver info oficial e benchs
 
destr0yer disse:
esgotadas em todas :P
Clicar para expandir...
Vai ao forum de Leiria que aquela foto é das que chegaram hoje, só se já esgotaram...

Sinceramente não acredito muito nessa noticia, e nem quero mesmo acreditar se for verdade é muito mau, mas acho que este tempo todo de espera se não sair uma coisa com pelo menos mais 10% de performance em relação à NV é um fracasso. Nesta altura já não tou como o Joker, já tenho o tempo a meu favor (a minha placa já desvalorizou) mas tb se demorar uma eternidade acho que vem outra NV para casa.
 
Nemesis11,

(4) that the Company's inventory levels were at a historic high, while current sales levels were insufficient to support the existing cost base; and

Quer isto dizer que a ATI tinham chips/placas em stock mas não os mandava cá para fora, para serem vendidos, com o high demand que o mid-range tem pelas placas da ATI?!

Que cena mais estranha... Aqui há gato...


Quanto à "discussão" da importância dos clocks e dos pipes.

Amigos, são ambas as coisas importantes. A velocidade de uma gráfica, para além de uns pózinhos de optimização aqui e acolá, é em grande percentagem influenciada pela relação entre esses dois factores.
Quanto mais pipes um GPU tem, maior a sua complexidade de fabrico, menores yeilds e provável menor frequência de trabalho.

Parece-me que a nVidia, nesta geração optou por, mantendo sensivelmente a mesma frequência nos GPU's, aumentar o paralelismo para mais performance. Poderia eventualmente, dado o shrink no processo de fabrico, optar apenas por aumento da frequência, mas acho que tomou a melhor opção. Nas gráficas os pipelines têm mais impacto de marketing do que a frequência, penso eu. Conseguiu ainda com isto, para além de tweaks na arquitectura anterior, diminuir os consumos.

A ATI, optou pela outra solução (a confirmarem-se estas noticias). A mesma arquitectura base, mesmos pipelines, SM3.0 e alguns tweaks para optimizar, aumento de performance com a subida na frequência de trabalho dos GPU's tirando partido do shrink do processo de fabrico. Isto aparenta ter o senão de haver maior dissipação de calor (dual slot) dada a imaturidade do processo de 90nm e consequentes baixos yeilds.

Como já aqui se disse, parece-me que a ideia da ATI é mandar algo cá para fora o mais depressa possivel para ganhar tempo até à próxima geração onde, com exactamente esta mesma tecnologia, com o melhorar do processo de fabrico, poderá conseguir inserir mais pipes. Vamos ver...
 
SilveRRIng disse:
Nemesis11,

(4) that the Company's inventory levels were at a historic high, while current sales levels were insufficient to support the existing cost base; and

Quer isto dizer que a ATI tinham chips/placas em stock mas não os mandava cá para fora, para serem vendidos, com o high demand que o mid-range tem pelas placas da ATI?!

Que cena mais estranha... Aqui há gato...
Clicar para expandir...

Não tive paciencia para ler os pdf das queixas, mas parece-me que esse ponto se refere apenas a alguns Gpu.
Tendo em conta que a X800 GTO são R420/R423/R480 Pro, se calhar temos aqui a resposta.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=ATYT

Podem ir vendo aqui os headlines sobre a Ati.
Vamos lá ver se com a familia R5XX, a xbox e a Revolution, a Ati dá a volta a esta situação.
 
É mais facil comparar se usares a mesma fonte (formato igual e tal).


Uma imagem vale mais que mil palavras:

ATI
ati6m.jpg


NVIDIA
nvidia6m.jpg
 
Mais info.

Update with ATI's CEO

Event: On Aug.17, we hosted investor meetings with Dave Orton, ATI’s President and CEO.

Impact: Neutral.

The meetings focused on four key points: 1) Late September Launch Date Set for Three R500 Desktop Discrete Chips (R520, RV530, and RV515); 2) Strong Integrated Graphics Chipsets Growth, But Gross Margins (Desktop and Mobile Combined) to Remain in the Low-Teens Range in Q4 (Aug); 3) Inventory Level to Remain Above Target in Q4 and Writedown Risk Remains in Our View; and 4) Consumer Business (Wireless and Digital TV) Falls Well Short of Original Target for 2x Growth in F2005. ATI is in final stages of its F2006 financial planning process, and does not intend to make a significant headcount investment, with plans to keep operating expenses relatively flat for each of the quarters. We believe management’s tone was justifiably conservative, and we do not anticipate a one-quarter snapback in revenue growth or gross margins. We have a higher level of confidence that ATI’s R500 family will launch on time, but weak gross margins and the inventory bloat will likely continue to weigh negatively on the stock. We maintain our HOLD and $12.75/C$15.50 target price on ATI, based on 15x our C2006E EPS of $0.85.

1. Late September Launch Date Set for Three R500 Desktop Discrete Chips (R520, RV530, and RV515): Addressing the rampant rumours surrounding the R520 launch date, ATI stated its plan of record is to launch all three 90nm R500 desktop discrete chips (the enthusiast R520, the performance RV530, and the value RV515) in late September. The shipment dates will likely be staggered for the three chips, based on the delivery cycles from TSMC, with one likely shipping at launch date and the other two within the first half of October. The R520 was originally planned for a June launch, while the RV530 and RV515 launch times are only a few weeks delayed from their original schedule. The R520 had been sampling since Dec/04, and although the architecture and 90nm process were not a problem, ATI was not able to run the clock fast enough due to a “soft ground” issue that was discovered in late July after debugging with several re-spins. Specifically, the R520 and RV530 had functional yields, but could not run at high speeds, while the RV515 and the C1 (the 90nm Xbox graphics chip) did not have any issues. ATI concedes it has lost the OEM designs (primarily Dell) to NVIDIA’s GeForce 7800 GTX for enthusiast desktop PCs for both the back-to-school and holiday season, but believes the retail and channel (add-in-board) markets for the R520 chip remain available (representing over 2/3rds of the enthusiast market). Both ATI and NVIDIA did not refresh their back-to-school product stack for the performance/mainstream/value segments, with ATI indicating it has kept a significant share of design wins awarded in the March to May timeframe, based on its ATI X700, X600, X550, and X300 (competing against NVIDIA’s GeForce 6200 and 6600). In terms of performance, ATI believes the R520 should exceed the GeForce 7800 GTX in benchmark tests if it can get the proper clock speed, but recognizes that NVIDIA has some headroom to overclock the GeForce 7800 clock speeds. We do not expect ATI to launch its R580 (speculated to have 32 pixel pipelines) in C2005 (ATI does not want to stall the channel for the R520), and expect a refresh of the R500 family beginning in spring 2006 with RV560, followed by RV540 and RV505. We expect the R600 (DirectX 10, targeting Microsoft Vista operating system and WGF 2.0, the next generation graphics library) in Q4/F06 or Q1/F07.

2. Strong Integrated Graphics Chipsets Growth, But Gross Margins (Desktop and Mobile Combined) to Remain in the Low-Teens Range in Q4 (Aug): ATI is guiding for its integrated graphics chipset business (desktop and mobile) to represent 15% to 20% of revenue in Q4, up from our estimated 11% in Q3. The corresponding gross margins will remain in the 11% to 15% range in Q4, with desktop chipsets margins of approximately 7% and mobile in the mid-teens range. Top line desktop chipset growth is being driven by both the AMD and Intel platforms. ATI contends that half of all AMD processor shipments now ship with ATI’s integrated chipsets, and indicates it has been bidding successfully for design wins against NVIDIA’s upcoming integrated graphics chipset for the AMD64 (K8) desktop market, codenamed C51, for the last six months (C51 launch date is set for late Sept.). We believe Intel’s decision to leave the low-end (sub-$20) desktop chipset market for roughly the next three quarters, as it focuses its capacity on the mobile chipset and handheld/smartphone market, should translate into Intel platform-based integrated chipset growth for both ATI and SiS. ATI is targeting its desktop integrated chipset volume to reach two to three million units per quarter in the next few quarters. ATI expects its integrated chipset gross margins (desktop and mobile combined) to drive towards the 25%-plus range with its next generation chipsets in Spring 2006. Chipset gross margin improvements are expected to be driven by shrinking the die size (from 0.13u to 0.11u), improving the test yields, and reducing the package costs (50% of the chipset cost is substrate packaging). ATI will focus on the $16 to $20 chipset segment, conceding the $22 to $30 chipset segment to Intel, and ATI may move down market to the $12 to $15 chipset segment targeted by VIA and SiS. The single-digit gross margins associated with ATI’s current desktop chipsets is a result of ATI having to lower its chipset pricing from the initial $25 price target (OEM customers desired a $16 to $20 chipset with equivalent graphics performance to Intel, not a $25 chipset with 2x the graphics performance of Intel’s offering). ATI’s high-end CrossFire chipset is expected to ship in volume in early September and contribute positively to gross margins.

3. Inventory Level to Remain Above Target in Q4 and Writedown Risk Remains in Our View: ATI’s Q3 (May) inventory ballooned to $456 million, up $89 million sequentially and representing 100 days of inventory, with 2/3rds of the PC segment inventory consisting of PCI Express versus 1/3 AGP. ATI contends the AGP-based inventory is not materially at risk, given the demand for these value and mainstream parts (e.g., RADEON 9200 and RADEON 9600). Q4 inventory is expected to drop to the low-$400 million range, but still above ATI’s target of having inventory represent roughly 50% of forward revenue guidance (ATI’s inventory turnover target is 70 to 75 days, considering the current substrate shortage situation which is anticipated to last for the next six months). ATI had underestimated the channel demand for nine consecutive quarters, and decided to add two weeks of supply buffer to its inventory in Q2/Q3, increasing to 10 weeks from 8 weeks, but suffered a slowdown in demand and a slight decrease in channel market share to the mid-30% level. In addition, half of the inventory bloat was due to ATI underestimating the yields on its wafer by a factor of roughly 40% (i.e., the wafers yielded 40% more die than expected), further compounding its inventory glut (under ATI’s die buy model, ATI purchases on a per-die as opposed to per-wafer basis, implying that it has secured the price per die based on theoretical yields from the fab, and has committed to purchase the entire wafer no matter what the yield). ATI is not planning for an inventory writedown, arguing its AGP and PCI Express inventory is not obsolete, but cautions that a fast ramp of the new R500 family should put pricing pressure on the existing generation of products (we do not rule out the possibility of an inventory writedown). Justification of Target Price: ATI trades at 25x our C2005E EPS of $0.48 and 14x our C2006E EPS of $0.85, which compares to NVIDIA at 20x and 16x, and Intel trading at 18x and 16x. We believe ATI’s operational issues (desktop product launch delays and gross margin weakness) justify a relatively discounted target multiple of 15x our C2006E EPS, deriving a target price of $12.75/C$15.50. Key Risks to Target Price: Risks include valuation multiple contraction in the semiconductor industry; a slowdown in PC sales; competition from NVIDIA and Intel; inability to secure PCI Express design wins; timing of the Microsoft Xbox 360 and Nintendo Revolution game console launches, unexpected delays in shipping new products; and the outstanding OSC hearing involving ATI’s Chairman.

Action Notes August 18, 2005
Equity Research
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http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=552967&postcount=784
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=552932&postcount=775

Fins de setembro para um dos Gpu, no inicio de outubro para os outros dois.
Não me parecem muito confiantes em relação à R520. Dizem que acreditam que é mais rapida que a G70 se conseguirem os clocks pretendidos e parece que esperam resposta da nVidia.
R580/RV560/RV540/RV505 como refresh e R600 no fim do proximo ano.
Também tem a info que faltava sobre os stocks.
 
Última edição:
SilveRRIng disse:
Nemesis11,

Como já aqui se disse, parece-me que a ideia da ATI é mandar algo cá para fora o mais depressa possivel para ganhar tempo até à próxima geração onde, com exactamente esta mesma tecnologia, com o melhorar do processo de fabrico, poderá conseguir inserir mais pipes. Vamos ver...
Clicar para expandir...

o mercado assim impõe..só pra nao dizer que a ATI nao fez nada pra competir a sério com a Nvidia. :rolleyes:
 
de facto é preocupante estas ultimas noticias que têm saido da Ati..espero que recuperem, que isto so com a nvidia nao teria piada nenhuma
 
Crazy Inside disse:
O processador gráfico que vai equipar a próxima geração de placa gráficas ATI, o R520.

HKEPC acaba de publicar a primeira foto de este novo processador gráfico da ATI,

r520.jpg


O R520 para ser mais pequeno que o gpu actual (R480), vem equipada com muitas resistências, quanto as especificações
ainda são desconhecidas, vários sites falam em 32 pixel pipelines e uma frequência GPU de 600 Mhz.

Fonte:MatBE
Clicar para expandir...


Uma conversa com o CEO da ATI :]

http://www.soneraplaza.fi/tietokoneet/artikkeli/0,2998,h-9112_a-303085,00.html
 
ATI Gears Up to Launch New Breed of Visual Processing Units.

ATI’s R520, RV530 and RV515 May Be Around the Corner

ATI Technologies is expected to release its new generation of graphics processor in late September or early October, according to various reports from financial analysts that emerged recently. The graphics company is likely to launch a number of visual processing units – not only top-end product – it is claimed, while ATI’s chief Dave Orton appears to be optimistic about the success of the product family.

“We are also confident that our upcoming desktop product launch will allow us to reclaim top-to-bottom technology leadership in discrete graphics,” said Dave Orton in a statement that warned about lower-than-expected financial results for the company in the quarter that ends on the 31st of August, 2005.

According to an analyst report published at Rage3D web-site, ATI stated that its plan was to launch all three 90nm new generation desktop discrete chips, including enthusiast-oriented R520, performance-mainstream RV530 and the value RV515, in late September. Some other sources has indicated that the chips would be officially announced in early October, however, late September date may indicate the beginning of revenue shipments of some products, whereas formal announcement may be set for October.

“The shipment dates will likely be staggered for the three chips, based on the delivery cycles from TSMC, with one likely shipping at launch date and the other two within the first half of October,” the report claims.

The company said during one of the recent conference calls that it did not expect to ship its new generation product family for revenue before August, 2005. Nevertheless, the chips were production ready by the 25th of July, 2005, when the PCI-SIG Integrators List was last updated, graphics cards makers might have received final visual processing units sometime in late August or early September.

The report informs that the code-named R520 had been sampling since December, 2004, and “although the architecture and 90nm process were not a problem, ATI was not able to run the clock fast enough due to a ‘soft ground’ issue that was discovered in late July after debugging with several re-spins”. It is reported that the R520 and RV530 had functional yields, but could not run at high speeds, while the RV515 and the C1 (the 90nm Xbox graphics chip) did not have any issues. It is reported that the R520 was originally planned for a June launch, while the RV530 and RV515 launch times were only a few weeks delayed from their original schedule.

ATI reportedly conceded it had lost the OEM designs, primarily Dell to NVIDIA’s GeForce 7800 GTX for enthusiast desktop PCs for both the back-to-school and holiday season, but expressed believes that the retail and channel (add-in-board) markets, which are claimed to represent over 66% of the enthusiast market, for the R520 chip remained available.

ATI code-named R5-series of VPUs is projected to support Shader Model 3.0 and other innovations, which requires a totally new graphics architecture from ATI.

ATI did not comment on the news-story.
Clicar para expandir...

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20050830211811.html
 
Vejam so o q disse na entrevista. Qdo lançarem uma solucao de 2 placas graficas a funcionarem ao mesmo tempo (Crossfire) tem de ser compativel com 100% dos jogos e nao só com 2 ou 3%.
Grande boca ao SLI da Nvidia. ATI rula :x2:
 
junglebvs disse:
Vejam so o q disse na entrevista. Qdo lançarem uma solucao de 2 placas graficas a funcionarem ao mesmo tempo (Crossfire) tem de ser compativel com 100% dos jogos e nao só com 2 ou 3%.
Grande boca ao SLI da Nvidia. ATI rula :x2:
Clicar para expandir...

OMG....isso é uma piada certo? :-D
 
junglebvs disse:
Vejam so o q disse na entrevista. Qdo lançarem uma solucao de 2 placas graficas a funcionarem ao mesmo tempo (Crossfire) tem de ser compativel com 100% dos jogos e nao só com 2 ou 3%.
Grande boca ao SLI da Nvidia. ATI rula :x2:
Clicar para expandir...

LOL ... 100% PERFORMANCE BOOST em vez de 2/3% como no SLI ... ;)



[nota: his word and not mine :P]
[nota2:A ATI tem stock acumulados de material PCIe e falta cronica de material AGP actualizado ... :?]
 
Pena é que para funcionar, a placa mais potente tem de funcionar à velocidade da mais lenta (caso sejam modelos diferentes), e o facto de estar dependente de placas especiais "master", com cabos externos...
Os novos drivers SLI já não requerem que as duas placas sejam da mesma marca e até toleram a ausência da Bridge, com uma pequena penalização no desempenho. Ah, e não é necessário comprar uma placa "master"...
Esperem mais novidades do SLI para breve, é que a Gigapixel e as suas patentes aínda são da Nvidia... ;)
 
Of course, the biggest cool thing is CrossFire support, which means that 100% of games will derive a clear benefit from the addition of a second card. Can you imagine the disappointment a customer would feel if they spent an additional $600 on a second graphic card for their system and got ZERO frames per second increase, or even a decrease? Our solution delivers the complete package - and that gives us a unique advantage in the marketplace."
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Só acredito quando vir. A ser verdade é potente. A boca para quem não percebeu ou não quis perceber, é que o sli quando foi lançado só funcionava, não em 2 ou 3% dos jogos como é óbvio, mas prai em 5 ou 6%. Estes prometem ganhos em todos os jogos, logo de inicio.

Talvez a experiencia acumulada com os simuladores militares com 30 r300 em paralelo sirva para aqui.
 
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